Neues von Predictor@home

[Maion]

The banish message states that you are not able to post until such and such date. This is like returning to the shopping mall after a guard has told you to leave. You have no right to return.

Tja... und die Moral von der Geschicht:
Schreibende gebannte User sind die Bösen, W*** oder der Zensierer nicht.

Nach der Sache (Workunits stuck at 99.875%, Suspended WU (99,875%) starts with 0%) wollte ich - wenn sich die technischen Probleme gegeben haben - bei Predictor einsteigen.

Allerdings habe ich nach der Aktion bei P@H jetzt keinerlei Muße auch nur 1 Minute Rechenzeit an dieses Projekt zu spenden.
Ich schlage Rosetta als Alternative vor - gute Communitybetreung und guter Zweck.

[Der Diplomat]

Ich schlage vor einen englischen Protestbrief sowohl an Mr. Braun als auch an die Universität (Kanzler, usw.) zu schreiben, den wir anderen Teams zur Verfügung stellen können.

Selbstverständlich können die nichts für den jenigen, der das System mißbraucht hat, aber sie könnten sich vielleicht doch eine andere Strategie im Umgang mit der Community überlegen, bevor nicht nur die scripps-Gruppe, sondern die ganze Universität in Mißkredit kommt.

Vielleicht dürfte dies eine schnellere Wirkung zeigen.

[Michael H.W. Weber]

Ich empfehele eine kurze, sachliche eMail an den Projektbetreiber Charles L. Brooks und vermute, er ist überhaupt nicht informiert (z.B weil er gerad auf einer Konferenz ist?). Wenn einer das Problem kurz zusammenträgt (auf Englisch) schicke ich die eMail weg. Habe seine eMail-Adresse nämlich, da er Autor eines der Artikel unseres Buches ist. Eine eMail an Michela Taufer dürfte ebenfalls Wunder wirken (die kriegt von mir gleich auch eine Kopie).

Michael.

[Uwe Sänger Herzke]

Ich habe Herrn Brooks eine mail geschrieben (CC an Herrn Braun). ich hoffe, ich habe nicht zu viele Rechtschreibfehler drin untergebracht, und ich hab sie auch nicht noch mal komplett gegengelesen, aber hier ist sie jedenfalls:

Hello Mr. Brooks,

I'd like to have some explanations about the actions Mr. Braun took against donators of computational power on the boards. Let me first tell you how I see the development of this issue:

On 20 Feb 2007 18:31:05 UTC I posted the detection of the illegal trojan BOINC installer on your message boards, as well as on several other projects with this user and his stolen computers in the stats.

In the following weeks all projects reacted in the appropriate manner: they investigated the issue, wiped his credits from the stats, blocked his account to prevent further exploitation of captured computers, and will probably soon wipe the former pending and now granted credits from his accout as well. All projects but one: Predictor@Home.

Predictor@Homes admin chose to ignore this issue. Every now and then some other volunteer updated the actions taken by the other projects in this regard, P@H did nothing, said nothing, until 22 Mar 2007 17:48:30 UTC, when Mr. Braun told in no friendly words that the donators should stop bothering him with this issue, declared all of us, and implicit the other project admins as well, "some guys", as if there hasn't been enough in the open to merit a ban (or at least a thorough investigation.

Mr. Braun didn't leave the impression in his rude post that he had the intention to do anything further in regard of this issue. He simply told everybody to shut up and not to bother him.

I started a new thread about this topic, as I think the leniency towards illegal hackers was nothing to be quiet about. Other donators agreed with me and posted in this thread as well. The thread was deleted (or better hidden) by Mr. Braun, and no explanation was given for his actions. My account was banned from further posting, again with no explanation given.

Other volunteers/donators were as well offended by this rude behaviour of Mr. Braun and started new threads, asking for explanations, that were deleted asap. Any discussion was stifled by the unmerited instant deletion bout of Mr. Braun.

We soon became aware that account creation was possible, and that new accounts could post again. I did so several times, and I have to admit that at some point I became so frustrated with the heavyhanded treatment of any dissent, later on even any post at all, that I posted one or two posts in which I called Mr. Braun some names, I apologise for that.

I will not apologise for posting at all and trying to keep this issue open. I will as well not apologise for resisting to the heavy censorship and the unfair treatment of your donators/volunteers/customers by one of your employees. There was absolutely no need to censor anything about the illegal trojan installer. It was imho the duty of a sys-admin to investigate this issue, this should be one of the basics of his job description.

He later in an other thread-closing post called us an "angry mob", but all this anger was only because of his actions towards innocent volunteer crunchers and simultanous leniency towards the criminal trojan installer. Had he acted in an apropriate manner, said anything along the lines "I look into it, give me some time", showed any kind of openness towards us volunteers, he would never had created this "angry mob".

He made an analogy about someone coming to his private house and hassling him with KKK talk, and his right to show him the door. Of course he has the formal right to do so, but we are not some strangers who intrude your private house, we are the very people who enable the whole effort, we are your customers, we are donators of computational power (and a lot of electricity along with it). You want somethimg from us, we don't need you.

Is it wise to treat ones customers, donators, volunteers in such a way?
Is it really the policy of the Scripps institute to insult it's donators?
Is it really the policy to ban any dissenting opinions from the open forum of an open project?
Is one criminal hacker really worth more then dozens of legal volunteers?

If the answer to any of the questions above is "yes", you definitely don't belong to my BOINC-portfolio, you are simply unethical and incompatible to my values.
I'd like to crunch further for your project, I'd like to recommend your project to other crunchers, I've been with you quite a while, but if you force me out with unethical behaviour I will go.

Yours sincerely,
Saenger (Uwe Herzke)

[Michael H.W. Weber]

Naja, man hätte das Ganze auch etwas diplomatischer formulieren können. Ich verstehe ja den Ärger, der hier aufgekommen ist. Allerdings habe ich doch das starke Gefühl, daß sich hier ein Admin verselbständigt hat. Was aber passiert, ist dass möglicherweise das Projekt wegen dieser Admin-verschuldeten Vorkommnisse ernsthaften Schaden nehmen wird. Ich bin mir nicht ganz sicher, ob das in eurem Sinne ist. Klar ist für mich, dass dieser Admin auf dem Board nichts weiter verloren hat. Und darauf sollte man hinwirken.

Michael.

[Rincewind]

Eigentlich find ich den Text gut, auch wenn die (rhetorischen) Fragen gegen Ende nicht ganz mein Stil sind, aber ansonsten saubere Arbeit

[Maion]

Ich würd noch fragen, ob die Projektbetreiber mit den Handlungen ihres Admins einverstanden sind bzw mit ihm reden, statt ihnen gleich um die Ohren zu hauen "Wenn Sie vom gleichen Schlag sind, hauen wir ab".

Ist etwas diplomatischer

[yoyo]

Shirt ( http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid ... =Predictor ) zum Thema. Der Text kann von jedem angepaßt werden.
yoyo

[groundhog]

Mr. Brown hat sich geäußert:

http://climateapps2.oucs.ox.ac.uk/cpdnb ... true#27501

Ich schlage vor, jeder bittet ihn per Mail um die Accountlöschung.

Grüße Groundhog

[Michael H.W. Weber]

Leute, wo komme ich wohl hin, wenn ich wegen jedes dämlichen Admins meine Accounts löschen würde? Ich denke gar nicht dran. Der Bursche hat keine Ahnung und wird deswegen ohnehin in Bälde ersetzt.

Michael.

[Rincewind]

I've locked this thread to keep this message at the top.

The Trojan issue: I have never said anywhere that I was not going to do anything about the Trojan user. What I said was that I was not going to do anything just because there was a post on the web. I don't visit any other projects forums and I don't know anybody at the other projects. There is a mailing list for projects that as far as I know all projects are subscribed to. There has been no mention of this until last night there. I believe it is inappropriate to post the name of a suspected cheater on the forums and this has brought out all sorts of childish behavior and accusations. If I had noticed something suspicious I would have either mailed the BOINC folks directly or sent mail asking other projects to check to see if the problem exists on there sites. If I posted something in the forums I would have not given a user name and just a description of the issue so that users are aware. After the thread appeared in our forums two other threads were created accusing people of cheating. I deleted those threads because the accusations were just plain wrong and I locked the Trojan thread asking the users not to create a new one.

I really don't think that this is any of your business, but that night I sent mail to the user in question asking for a response. Last night a lady, who I do not know sent me mail from claiming to be from CDPN. The return address was a hotmail account. I believe this person was who she said she was, but it did remind me of the weekly mail I get from ebay asking me to update the account I've never created. This illustrates the point that seems to be universally missed here. The web can give credibility to ANYBODY. A post and discussion on the projects mailing list by project administrators would give credibility to this issue. A forum post has no credibility. If you disagree with this you should look at some of the thing you say in the forums. I read them all.

I will not delete someones account just because an angry mob instructs me to.

Freedom of Speech issue: I think that schools have really failed here. Freedom of speech does not mean that you can say anything anywhere you want. It means that I can criticize the government, which I do often, and there is nothing that they can do about it. It does not mean that you can walk into my house to express your opinion, you can't use my phone, computer, wireless, or the P@H server without permission. That permission can be revoked at any time. If you invite me to your home and discover that I like to talk about the KKK, which most people might find offensive, you can ask me to leave. If I refuse to leave you can call the police and have me arrested. There is no freedom of speech issue here. When you are on someone's property and you are ask to leave you have to leave.

I did not think the Trojan thread was appropriate and it appeared to be spawning other similar discussions. I locked the thread. If the user community had any respect at all that would have been the end of it. You would have been free to take the discussion to one of the many other forums. There is no freedom of speech issue here.

Several users decided that they were going to ignore my request and reopened the thread. Again, it's not your server. It's mine. Just as a property manager or security guard can ask you to leave a shopping mall I can ask you to leave our server. I used the boinc 'banish' function which suspends the users ability to create threads for a week or so. Had these users just gone elsewhere that would have been the end of it. Instead they created new accounts and more threads, which I started blocking and deleting. At this point their behavior, does not matter if you agree with my deleting the posts or not, is criminal. The banish message states that you are not able to post until such and such date. This is like returning to the shopping mall after a guard has told you to leave. You have no right to return. One user boasted that he could change his ip address after I blocked it. His posts made it clear that he understood that he had been banished and was doing everything he could to get around it. This is criminal behavior. A number of you have stated that we are endorsing criminal behavior by not deleting the trojan users account. Then you behave like this. I think most adults would have simply left. An adult may have disagreed, and contacted my by email..which is at the bottom of all my posts along with my address and phone number. Thats not what the people here did.

If I go to your home and you ask me to leave I'm gone. I have no idea what you are thinking. Looking at this thread it looks as if the average P@H forum user is a 12 year old. One lady ask me in a post to delete her account, so I did. Then she sent me mail calling me an asshole and declared war. Our freinds who repeatedly created new accounts sent me mail explaining that they were going to create threads everywhere, which they did. Look at what people have written in this thread. Who are you people? What is wrong with you?

I was unsatisfied with my mechanic. I stopped going to him. I didn't harass him. I didn't threaten him. I didn't like the work he did so I found someone else. I didn't put a billboard up outside his shop calling him names. There are some sick people here.

This all started because I know how people act in the forums and I wanted to put out a fire before it got out of hand. I've been with predictor for a while now and I know how people can be in the forums but I had no idea that people have this much free time and so little maturity.

I got a mail from a team captain in Germany threatening to boycott the site if we continue to endorse criminal activity. It's ironic that one of his people is on the list of people who created multiple accounts to get around being banished. If this is how your people act then don't threaten, I demand that you disconnect for predictor.

The bottom line is this. If you do not like P@H go somewhere else. Please. There are a large number of projects to choose from and if you look hard enough I'm sure that you will find one you like.

And finally: To respond to all the personal attacks I see this mess as a reflection on the character of the eight or so users who's tantrum started all this. You were told you couldn't do something so you through a fit.

dlb

Aber irgendwie geht er nicht wirklich auf die Beschwerden ein, sondern heult nur wegen den persönlichen Beleidigungen rum (die auf jeden Fall nicht akzeptabel sind) und stellte es gegen Ende so dar als ob wir etwas gegen P@h hätten. Interessant ist auch die Tatsache das man auf SEINEM Server wohl keine Redefreiheit hat.

[Michael H.W. Weber]

Er hat völlig falsch reagiert und hat nicht die nötige Kompetenz, die für seine Aufgabe erforderlich sind. Finde ich jedenfalls.

Michael.