Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

Everything about the project RNA World
Nachricht
Autor
Jacob Klein
Oberfalter
Oberfalter
Beiträge: 470
Registriert: 26.07.2013 15:41

Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#1 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 07.08.2016 15:14

I recently completed a task:
Work Unit: http://www.rnaworld.de/rnaworld/workuni ... id=6330712
Task: http://www.rnaworld.de/rnaworld/result. ... d=14950340

... but the result is categorized as "Invalid", the status is: "Completed, can't validate", and the work unit says "errors Too many errors (may have bug)"

My questions are:
- Was my work wasted?
- Were the result files of my task, saved successfully?
- Can the work unit be resurrected so someone can validate it?
- Will my task's status change from "Invalid - Completed, can't validate" to "Validation pending - Completed, validation pending"?
- If so, when?

This is frustrating. I'm putting forth a lot of effort to get these tasks to be completed, yet every success is met with uncertainty and confusion. I was especially shocked/frustrated to see "Invalid". Please help.

Thanks,
Jacob Klein
Zuletzt geändert von Jacob Klein am 07.08.2016 21:39, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

Benutzeravatar
Michael H.W. Weber
Vereinsvorstand
Vereinsvorstand
Beiträge: 20258
Registriert: 07.01.2002 01:00
Wohnort: Marpurk
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#2 Ungelesener Beitrag von Michael H.W. Weber » 07.08.2016 21:35

Well, I think this WU just needs to be reactivated such that it is sent to another machine for validation. Unfortunately, this is a common problem with these monster tasks: People tend to abort it or just crash it such that after a while the server thinks the WU has a general problem and stops delivering it over and over again. Some sort of safety measure.
Please send a PM to Christian for reactivation (hopefully that will solve the problem).

Michael.
Fördern, kooperieren und konstruieren statt fordern, konkurrieren und konsumieren.

http://signature.statseb.fr I: Kaputte Seite A
http://signature.statseb.fr II: Kaputte Seite B

Bild Bild Bild

Jacob Klein
Oberfalter
Oberfalter
Beiträge: 470
Registriert: 26.07.2013 15:41

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#3 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 07.08.2016 21:39

I fully understand why there were ~30 failures, and why the task is in a "Too many errors" state.

However, my 5 questions remain, and I'm not going to PM Christian, because the answers deserve to be publicly answered, here.

Could you please find a way to get the questions answered?

Thanks,
Jacob Klein

Benutzeravatar
Michael H.W. Weber
Vereinsvorstand
Vereinsvorstand
Beiträge: 20258
Registriert: 07.01.2002 01:00
Wohnort: Marpurk
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#4 Ungelesener Beitrag von Michael H.W. Weber » 07.08.2016 21:48

Jacob Klein hat geschrieben:Could you please find a way to get the questions answered?
Michael H.W. Weber hat geschrieben:Well, I think this WU just needs to be reactivated such that it is sent to another machine for validation.
...and everything should be fine. I have sent a PM to Christian.

Michael.
Fördern, kooperieren und konstruieren statt fordern, konkurrieren und konsumieren.

http://signature.statseb.fr I: Kaputte Seite A
http://signature.statseb.fr II: Kaputte Seite B

Bild Bild Bild

Jacob Klein
Oberfalter
Oberfalter
Beiträge: 470
Registriert: 26.07.2013 15:41

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#5 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 07.08.2016 22:43

I understand you're trying to help. Thanks.
Eventually, when you and Christian know more, I'd appreciate the answers to the 5 questions.

Note: I have other work units too, that I have questions about, but ... that'll be another day. :) In the meantime, I'm going to continue to knock these monsters out!! :)

ChristianB
Vereinsvorstand
Vereinsvorstand
Beiträge: 1914
Registriert: 23.02.2010 22:12

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#6 Ungelesener Beitrag von ChristianB » 08.08.2016 13:03

Jacob Klein hat geschrieben:My questions are:
- Was my work wasted?
- Were the result files of my task, saved successfully?
- Can the work unit be resurrected so someone can validate it?
- Will my task's status change from "Invalid - Completed, can't validate" to "Validation pending - Completed, validation pending"?
- If so, when?
- No
- Yes (I disabled the file deleter just for those occasional cases)
- Yes
- Yes
- 10 seconds ago

Regards
Christian

Benutzeravatar
Michael H.W. Weber
Vereinsvorstand
Vereinsvorstand
Beiträge: 20258
Registriert: 07.01.2002 01:00
Wohnort: Marpurk
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#7 Ungelesener Beitrag von Michael H.W. Weber » 08.08.2016 13:13

:D

Michael.

P.S.: My monster has now reached a total runtime of over 9000 hrs.
Fördern, kooperieren und konstruieren statt fordern, konkurrieren und konsumieren.

http://signature.statseb.fr I: Kaputte Seite A
http://signature.statseb.fr II: Kaputte Seite B

Bild Bild Bild

Jacob Klein
Oberfalter
Oberfalter
Beiträge: 470
Registriert: 26.07.2013 15:41

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#8 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 08.08.2016 13:59

Thanks guys. These are the answers that I had hoped for. I wish there was a way for this to be done automatically, without any user intervention, and without any admin intervention.

PS: 9000 hrs, nice, keep it going!

Regards,
Jacob Klein

Benutzeravatar
JeromeC
XBOX360-Installer
XBOX360-Installer
Beiträge: 68
Registriert: 23.10.2010 19:38
Wohnort: Poissy/France

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#9 Ungelesener Beitrag von JeromeC » 30.08.2016 22:11

Hi

I hardly ever get any WU on this project (proof here) but I got one some days ago, but as you can see it's a long list of failures done by other users (errors or abortions since 2013 !!!) and it never got properly calculated by anybody.... what's the point of such a waste of calculation power ? is it a joke against boinc users ? where's the scientific interest ?

Besides even though there are only 6 days left before deadline (why such a short deadline ? CPDN give very long deadlines to their very long WUs) and after 4 days of calculation, it won't be enough obviously to complete (it says 2,5% of completion) AND boinc doesn't even think it is necessary to make it priority calculation (I run a lot of different projects on my Mac) so sometimes I can see it is idle...

Also your VM task doesn't have any console display (always empty, unlike vLHC or Atlas) so we have no clue if it is actually calculating.

But maybe there are logical answers to my questions ? in some other dimension maybe ?

Thanks

Jacob Klein
Oberfalter
Oberfalter
Beiträge: 470
Registriert: 26.07.2013 15:41

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#10 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 30.08.2016 22:53

JeromeC hat geschrieben:Hi

I hardly ever get any WU on this project (proof here) but I got one some days ago, but as you can see it's a long list of failures done by other users (errors or abortions since 2013 !!!) and it never got properly calculated by anybody.... what's the point of such a waste of calculation power ? is it a joke against boinc users ? where's the scientific interest ?

Besides even though there are only 6 days left before deadline (why such a short deadline ? CPDN give very long deadlines to their very long WUs) and after 4 days of calculation, it won't be enough obviously to complete (it says 2,5% of completion) AND boinc doesn't even think it is necessary to make it priority calculation (I run a lot of different projects on my Mac) so sometimes I can see it is idle...

Also your VM task doesn't have any console display (always empty, unlike vLHC or Atlas) so we have no clue if it is actually calculating.

But maybe there are logical answers to my questions ? in some other dimension maybe ?

Thanks
Hi JeromeC,

Actually, that work unit:
http://www.rnaworld.de/rnaworld/workuni ... id=6330894
... has been completed by someone (see the "Completed, waiting for validation" result), and is looking for confirmation from another user like you.
It took them ~141 days of CPU Time, using a CPU stronger than yours.

I crunched some numbers using the Excel Wingman calculator I made in another thread on this forum. Results below. Basically, you can expect that task to take around ~170 days of CPU Time, at similar workloads to your wingman.

These are monster tasks. We're lucky they are in a checkpoint-able VM.
It's up to you whether you want to conquer it or not. :)

You can click "VM Console" button, to see a display of sorts, but it's pretty useless. I use Task Manager to verify that VBoxHeadless.exe is crunching!

Code: Alles auswählen

You All Threads, Wingman All Threads:		14,385,924	166d 12:05:24
You All Threads, Wingman Single Thread:		27,356,212	316d 14:56:52
You Single Thread, Wingman All Threads:		7,493,405	86d 17:30:05
You Single Thread, Wingman Single Thread:	14,249,428	164d 22:10:28
BOINC Measured FLOPS (million ops/sec):		14,338,209	165d 22:50:09
Zuletzt geändert von Jacob Klein am 30.08.2016 22:56, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.

Benutzeravatar
Michael H.W. Weber
Vereinsvorstand
Vereinsvorstand
Beiträge: 20258
Registriert: 07.01.2002 01:00
Wohnort: Marpurk
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#11 Ungelesener Beitrag von Michael H.W. Weber » 30.08.2016 22:54

@JeromeC: A few answers:

1. Yes, this project currently only delivers very few and computationally very demanding tasks. Most failures are caused by manual WU abortion, because people commonly underestimate the run times and then decide to quit. Other failures include crashes caused by memory overloading with additional apps started in parallel to BOINC (gaming, etc). At present, there are barely any failures which are caused by technical issues of the project and there are many successfully completes tasks with extraordinary long run times - I currently have one in progress on one of my older AMDs which will soon cross the 10.000 hrs barrier. To avoid these demanding WUs to be delivered to your system, please just disable the VM tasks. Other types of tasks will become available again which require regular compute ressources at a later time.

2. Unlike other projects, run times of the VM tasks can only be estimated, because they include a non-deterministic element. As a rule of thumb, AMD machines require approx. double the initial run time prediction. For this reason, and in contrast to other projects, we have implemented an automated deadline extension: Your task will send trickle-up data to our server to keep it informed of your WU's progress. The server in turn extends the deadline for that WU around every two weeks. Unfortunately, that deadline extension can't be passed on to your client. So, don't be surprised that your WU will always indicate its initial deadline information but still keeps running. If you like to inquire the correct deadline, you just need to take a look at your RNA World account.

3. Detailed information on the state of distributed computing tasks employing Virtualbox can be obtained by installing and using the corresponding Virtualbox extension pack. The CERN-based projects ATLAS@home and vLHC@home use an entirely different approach compared to us, so these are non-comparable. And yes, we have also disabled the formerly implemented graphics view, because it used Flash player which is actually a pain in the butt. An HTML5-replacement has been worked out and now requires someone to put it into practice.

4. The scientific value of the VM tasks are the identification of RNA families in very large genomes - as described in the project description.

I hope, most of your concerns could be addressed. If you have further questions, please let me know.

Michael.
Fördern, kooperieren und konstruieren statt fordern, konkurrieren und konsumieren.

http://signature.statseb.fr I: Kaputte Seite A
http://signature.statseb.fr II: Kaputte Seite B

Bild Bild Bild

Benutzeravatar
JeromeC
XBOX360-Installer
XBOX360-Installer
Beiträge: 68
Registriert: 23.10.2010 19:38
Wohnort: Poissy/France

Re: Invalid - Completed, can't validate - Too many errors

#12 Ungelesener Beitrag von JeromeC » 31.08.2016 22:19

Well thanks a lot for your answers, I feel pretty much comforted indeed.

I'm quite willing to let it run for ages if I know it is not stuck and it is producing scientific output, that's also why I was asking about the VM console because when I click the button it will launch CoRD (I also have the extension pack, CoRD being the solution to see the VM console on a Mac, it works very well with vLHC and Atlas, I agree you don't see much but at least you know it's working fine) but I always get to a black screen not showing any output with RNA (or sometimes it seems not to be able to connect to the VM port at all and gets "connecting" forever), so I'm wondering "what's up in there", that's all.

But it's not a big deal because in such case I go in the activity monitor of the Mac and if I see the VBoxHeadless is eating CPU then I'm happy enough :)

Technical detail : my boinc is running as a service on the Mac. Maybe it has nothing to do, but just in cas.

Anyway I'll let the monster walk and see how far it goes !

Cheers


edit : OUCH ! I saw the only complete calculation of one user, in January 2014 and it's been in pending state since then !!!
also I can see many failure of it are due to "Error while computing" with very long calculation time each time, and not that many "abandoned by user", so still I can see there is a big waste of calculation power over the years...

Antworten

Zurück zu „RNA World Discussions (english)“